As the Jehovah’s Witnesses were wrapping up their spiel to us, they commended my husband and me for being “so open-minded,” taking their literature and giving them the time of day to talk to us. My husband asked them if they considered themselves open-minded, if they had read and considered the arguments that says that the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses are mistaken. One responded, “Why would I do that? I’ve already found the answers I believe are true.”
We were dumbfounded. We went a few rounds back and forth, but it was clear that we were on completely non-intersecting planes of thought. My husband and I pointed out that we also believe what we think is true. They didn’t seem to understand how that was relevant. One of them eventually mentioned a period of “rebellion” from her JW upbringing in her late teens, during which she “looked into other things,” but implied that since she had done that (whatever that was), there was no need to investigate further. They repeatedly said that they weren’t “forcing” anything on us and that we didn’t have to take their literature, but we pointed out that they did obviously think it was good that we did. They didn’t see the parallel. Finally, my husband and I let it go, and we all wished each other a good day.
After we closed the door, I had a little realization. We had been trying to impress upon them that, if they valued open-mindedness as they said they did, they should themselves be open-minded and educate themselves about the arguments against their beliefs. But this assumes that they value open-mindedness for its own sake. And they don’t.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses at our door praised open-mindedness in us, insofar as it meant that we would be open-minded to considering their beliefs. In other words, in their evaluation, open-mindedness has instrumental value but not inherent value. Open-mindedness is the way that non-JWs become JWs. They’re already JWs — the ultimate good end — so they have no need for open-mindedness anymore. I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that Jehovah’s Witnesses are not the only people who have this sort of attitude.
As atheists and skeptics, we are often told by those who hold supernatural beliefs that we should “be more open-minded.” It’s easy to then get caught up in a debate about what “open-minded” really means and why rejecting a claim because of evidence does not equate to close-mindedness — but this is all irrelevant to someone who doesn’t actually think open-mindedness is the point. Undoubtedly it is a worthwhile conversation to have with some religious believers and pseudoscience proponents, but this encounter reminded me that it is not necessarily appropriate. We should remember to question further, and make sure we understand what values are really being praised.
Jojo the hun on 
christianPeper
/ September 1, 2010 at 11:55 amIt is interesting that you mentioned “open mindedness” in the same article that you discussed the Jehovah Witness organization. Scientist Hassan constructed a model of mind control based on four variables: control of behavior, control of thoughts, control of emotions, and control of information. According to this (and many other mind control models), the Jehovah Witness organization fits the classic “cult” definition. I respect all beliefs but I dislike organizations that CONTROL and MANIPULATE their members. -ChrisB.Peper
vinny
/ September 1, 2010 at 2:57 pmThe WT Society is a human originating, men-run, high controlling religious cult-like institution, rather than what they tell people they are (God’s appointed Channel/Organization/People etc etc).
The facts prove without a doubt that God was never behind any of this:
http://home.tiscali.nl/t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm
ALL FROM THEIR OWN LITERATURE WITH DATES AND PAGES TO SEE FOR YOURSELVES!
We got false predictions all over the place, medical disasterous policies – FORCED on JW’s.
We got flip flops, blinking lights, wacky science, historical failures, arrogance, judging and loads of WT Society embarrassments and humiliations throughout their entire 100+ year history!
God had nothing to do with all that nonsense that was called, “Food from God” by all JW’s.
It was WRONG when it first came off the presses!
So why are some today opposed to Jehovah’s Witness and their policies?
Dead People is why.
Ruined lives is why.
False prophecies is why.
A controlling Religious Institution is why.
They are WRONG ON BLOOD TODAY (for 68 years now).
They are WRONG ON SHUNNING those that simply walk away from the JW religion today.
They are WRONG 607 BCE and 1914.
They were WRONG ABOUT FORBIDDING Vaccinations, Organ Transplants, Alternative Service and more.
They were wrong on ALL OF THEIR End of World Predictions in writing. Wrong on marital infidelity rules, rape rules, beards, 1935, Beth Sarim and too many things to bother listing here.
Did ((( GOD ))) make all of these terrible decisions to force on all the JW’s as “food at the proper time, and then change his mind later on?
Or did a few OLD MEN, that make up the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses (sitting up in some Brooklyn office somewhere) MAKE these poor decisions, FORCE them on all JW’s and then afterwards conveniently change their mind?
Does God serve Bad Food like this?
Perhaps He is not a very good cook?
Shunning people for disagreements is NOT scriptural!
Shunning people for walking away from the JW faith is NOT scriptural!
This is a CONTROL mechanism. And it often works. It is a gross misapplication of scripture to keep the average JW towing the line.
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN UNITY AND FORCED UNIFORMITY.
Jw’s are not allowed to even THINK differently.
I WAS a JW, and an elder as well, until recently in 2006 when I walked away. I am very familiar with how they are actually WORSE than most other faiths today. I am shunned for walking away. People today and for the last 80 years have died, without reason, due to the WT medical policies forced on all JW’s.
Each week is filled with a list of JW obligations that basically OWN YOU. You are told what you can read, what movies are acceptable, what association is acceptable, what facial hair is okay. What you can celebrate and cannot. What words you are allowed to use.
What is allowed in your own bedroom with your wife. And too many other things to list here again. Before knowing all the facts and believing they were God’s True Channel, one can go a very long way to justify all of these things. Take away that one true faith belief and so falls the rest.
I have been there and done all that.
JW’s are told they cannot take blood transfusions in situations where they might need one (such as through accidents or complications with surgery, pregnancy or child birth).
So, naturally, more JW’s will die.
Just like this mother died unnecessarily!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/shropshire/7078455.stm
And now her husband has no wife and her two new twins have no mother.
And all for what?
This is very simple. JW’s NEEDLESSLY die for this sorry blood policy today.
From the same organization that has an entire 100 + year history of similar bad policies.
This is why I suggest to anybody thinking of becoming a JW … to READ READ AND READ UP ON THIS RELIGION FIRST!
The proof will clearly stand out that the JW faith is not what they try to tell people they are!
The facts are irrefutable.
Vinny
Leah @ Unequally Yoked
/ September 1, 2010 at 5:25 pmExcellent post, NFQ. Perhaps you can distill your observations into a counter brochure for all of us to use the next time the Witnesses come knocking.
Though I must say, I will only download one if it includes the graphic from this post.
–Leah @ Unequally Yoked
vinny
/ September 1, 2010 at 9:42 pmThis link and Watchtower article actually applies even more to your article about forbidden questions than my previous post. It’s actually so bad it seems almost funny. It will make you fall out of your chair if not prepared. Seriously, check it out.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20000622/article_03.htm
The above link is directly from the “Official” Watchtower Website. It’s a short reading.
Now, imagine somebody trying to apply this very same advice to their own Jehovah’s Witness faith today.
Quite simply,You can’t. You would be expelled for applying to your own JW faith, what they suggest people of other religious faiths to do.
I have seen many examples of double standards with the JW organization, but this one may very well be one of the most blatant cases I can remember.
Just a few ‘highlights’ from the article:
“Education shows you how to think. Propaganda tells you WHAT to think.”
“Propagandists relentlessly force you to hear their view and discourage discussion.”
“The propagandist makes sure that his message appears to be the right and moral one and that it gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. ”
(this next one is a personal fav)…
“Solomon, a king and educator in ancient times, warned: “Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps.” (Proverbs 14:15) So we need to be selective. We need to scrutinize whatever is presented to us, deciding what to accept and what to reject.” …
(the thud you heard was when I fell out of MY chair)…
“Put information to the test: “Beloved ones,” said John, a first-century Christian teacher, “do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions.”
(Last time I tried just that that one they wanted to Disfelllowship me, so I disassociated).
“Moreover, if we want to be fair-minded, we must be willing to subject our own opinions to continual testing as we take in new information. We must realize that they are, after all, opinions.”
(Another favorite)…
“Also, if possible, try to check the track record of those speaking. Are they known to speak the truth?”
Just go here and hold onto your hats! http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm
(This one really takes the cake!)
“Do not just follow the crowd: If you realize that what everybody thinks is not necessarily correct, you can find the strength to think differently.”
(Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahah)…..
“While it may seem that all others think the same way, does this mean that you should?”
(guess that depends on whether you want your family or not.)
“Over the centuries all kinds of ideas have been popularly accepted, only to be proved wrong later. Yet, the inclination to go along with the crowd persists.”
I did not makes this stuff up. It’s straight from their own website.
I’ve seen all kinds of hypocritical double standards throughout the JW religion. But I think that one is as bad as you can get.
July 09 Awake Update: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/174959/1/No-One-Should-Be-Made-to-Choosee280a6-LIES-from-July-09-Awake
Man, defending WT world is one tough business.
Vinny
vinny
/ September 3, 2010 at 3:25 pmI KNEW THE LITTLE ATHEIST WOULD RUN AWAY AND DELETE ALL MY COMMENTS DESTROYING HIS SILLY BELIEFS.
What a bunch of sorry losers.
Hey, change the title to “forbidden posts”
BWAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
NFQ
/ September 3, 2010 at 3:48 pmVinny, blog comments are for posting comments about blog posts. Posting 23 screenfuls of text, huge sections of which were just copy-pasted from other people’s writing, is not constructive conversation but is clearly “extreme antagonism” and is in violation of my comment policy.
I was really hoping I wouldn’t have to ban anyone from commenting here, but you’ve demonstrated that you are not at all interested in contributing to discussion and are just looking to make a scene. Sorry, but you’re being banned.